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okay

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I

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gatri it

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would be true to say that the working

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class has changed but false to say it

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had disappeared changes like Automation

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atomization and insecurity have been

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used by some to deny the very existence

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of class in the modern world and that

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class-based politics belongs in the end

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of History this is one of many themes

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playing out in the epic battle to

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overthrow Jeremy Corbin as labor leader

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our first guest is a fellow and vice

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principal of St Hilda's College Oxford

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University and author of young women

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work and family in England which won the

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women's history Network prize and the

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people the rise and fall of the working

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class 1910 to 2010 she's Professor

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Selena Todd and she joins us now

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Professor thanks for joining us I want

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to challenge the premise on the in the

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very title of your book I argue that the

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working class has not Fallen merely

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morphed and changed yeah I'd agree with

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that in fact we know from opinion polls

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that most people in Britain today still

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identify as working class the subtitle

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of the book is trying to get at the fact

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that politically and culturally if we

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think about our mainstream media the

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working class has all but disappeared

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and when I started writing the book one

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of my motivations was to ask how's that

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happened how is it that within public

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life the working class just seem to have

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disappeared when in fact when you talk

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to people they say it still very much

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exists all around us everything that we

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see is made by people uh and every

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service we received is is is giv given

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by uh people so the existence of a group

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of people uh who depend upon their lay

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to live and if they had no wage no

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salary they would not be able to survive

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the end of the week or the end of the

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month that's all the working class

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really means isn't it I'd say it means

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that and it means something else as well

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which is what do people think about that

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does that fact of their circumstance and

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I absolutely agree with what you're

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saying does that mean something

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significant to them what struck me when

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I started my research for the book

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around 200920 10 was that the economic

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crash had happened and quite a lot of

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politicians have been saying for a while

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on the left as well as the right we live

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in a class of society now what people

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said to me was you know my standard of

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living might look middle class but

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actually I feel insecure I'm not sure

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I'm going to pay my mortgage I'm

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certainly not sure how my kids are going

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to get a house are they going to have a

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job to go to when they leave school and

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so increasingly that very fact that you

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mentioned George the fact that you have

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to go to work for a living was coming to

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mean something very significant to

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people including people who just a few

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years earlier had thought of themselves

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because they were managers perhaps as in

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quite secure jobs actually statistics

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this week showed that Britain today is

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one of the most unequal Societies in the

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Western World absolutely and that's been

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the case for a long time and that

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inequality has been growing since

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1979 when neoliberal economics was

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embraced by Margaret Thatcher's

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conservative government and subsequently

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by labor governments as well as Tories

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how does that play into the political

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system you're to too young to remember

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but the the eurocommunist thesis around

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the magazine Marxism today began to

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argue that the the working class

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politics class politics per se uh were

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becoming a thing of the past this was

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picked up by social Democrats in the

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leadership of the labor party at the

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time Neil kinnick and others and used to

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uh generate a a completely different

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kind of politics which became actually

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blism absolutely and one of the things

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that I try to challenge in my book The

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People is the really narrow view of the

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working class that those politicians

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held and still hold I think which is

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this idea that to have a working class

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we need to have a predominantly male

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industrialized Workforce working in

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kinds of Industries like steel and

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Mining actually going back to what you

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said earlier to have a working class

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doesn't mean any of that one of the

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things that I make the point about in

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the book is the fact that until the

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1940s the single largest group of

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working people in Britain were women

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domestic servants so when we hear today

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oh well there's no working class because

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most people work in service Industries

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many people are working in non-unionized

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sectors I say well you know what it was

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like that before 1940 but when we look

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back we know that those people had class

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Consciousness they were the very

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Generations who were forming trade

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unions now you speak of domestic

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servants you I understand you use in

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your books servants the domestic

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servants as a barometer of social change

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now of course we don't live in downtown

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EBY scenarios anymore but our servants

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today I.E house cleaners babysitters dog

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walkers I mean they're from Eastern

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European now or Asia so they are still

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here absolutely absolutely and you make

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a really interesting point there about

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migrant labor again it's something which

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I found very worrying in recent years

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many politicians have somehow tried to

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suggest that immigration is new to

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Britain one of the very interesting

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facts about domestic servant is that on

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the whole by the 1930s their poor young

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women coming from Ireland or coming into

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England from impoverished parts of

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Scotland and Wales uh in Glasgow when I

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was very young there was one Factory

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parkhead Forge which employed 30,000

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people it's now a shopping mall as that

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happened uh when I joined the transport

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and general Workers Union in 1973 it had

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2 million members the TU had 13 million

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members now it has 6 million members uh

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things have changed

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superficially but as I think we're

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agreeing here and I look forward to

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reading the book uh workers are still

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workers no matter in what numbers they

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are congregated what gender they are or

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even What ethnicity they are and they

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are that upon which we all depend

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absolutely and many of them are aware of

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it when I was researching the book I was

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very impatient with the kind of

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generalities that politicians came up

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about with the working class I thought

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let's go and talk to people and so the

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books packed with personal testimonies

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are people I interviewed people I've

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been at school with I from Newcastle

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pontin so I interviewed many of the

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people who I'd been at comprehensive

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school with but then went and found in

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archives oral histories testimonies of

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earlier Generations often put together

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by school children by ordinary people

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who just wanted to write down their

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stories you know you don't need to be a

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professional historian like me to do

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history right and what struck me was we

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sometimes have a very narrow conception

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of how Working Class People organize I

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didn't just want to write a history that

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was about victimhood and you know as

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you've both made the point we could

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write that history we could say well

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it's all about inequality it's all about

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people being on their knees but I was

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interested in how do people organize

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trade unions is one way and it's very

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interesting that the largest group of

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workers who are being fastest unionized

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at the moment a part-time women workers

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yeah we don't hear very much about that

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but also of course people have always

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organized in other ways I mean you'll be

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aware from Glasgow rent strikes the role

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of women as well as men in things like

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rent strikes in tenants Association s in

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arguing for Community rights in arguing

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for local control of schools these are

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issues that we can all get behind now

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and rather than saying there's no

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working class we don't need to bother

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about the working class what politicians

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should be doing is listening to people

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and thinking where are they organizing

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what are the issues that are mobilizing

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them because we hear a lot of worries

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about people not going out to vote but

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actually what you have to do is work out

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where are people instead of saying to

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them you should be um in the polling

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station or you should be in the trade

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Union let's go to them find out what

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they want yes quite now uh you I think

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and certainly we are uh big supporters

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of Jeremy Corbin we're reaching the end

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now of this stage at least of the epic

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battle to overthrow him he's reflecting

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the kind of uh political analysis that

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you're writing about isn't he uh he is

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agreeing with what we're arguing here

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that whatever other identities people

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have and their right to be proud of

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their and conscious of their identities

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whether gender or orientation or color

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ethnicity uh uh religion or whatever the

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fundamental identity they have is that

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in relation to Capital are they workers

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who can live without work or are they

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people who depend on work to live that's

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the Corbin uh agenda really isn't it

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yeah think it is and I'm very excited

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about it I saw him speak at an early

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stage of his leadership campaign last

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year one of the things that really

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impressed me actually was that he made

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exactly the point that you're making

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which is people can have multiple

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identities but when we talk about class

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we're talking fundamentally about a

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relationship not an identity and he said

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actually you know so what we do is we

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have to think about how do we reshape

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these kinds of economic relationships so

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that we can start talking about equality

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I was really excited about that because

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something I'm researching at the moment

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something I got very exercised about

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researching the people is this idea

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people hop on about about social

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Mobility how do we get the few talented

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ones to rise through struck me we'd had

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generations of Labor leaders who that

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was about all they were willing to talk

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about in terms of social justice and

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here's a guy who's talking about

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something different I've actually become

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more excited over the last year um I

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don't buy this idea that he's um not

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doing well labor have had a lot of elect

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SU esses but also I've become

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increasingly aware of the team around

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him and this is not any kind of

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personality cult he's brought people

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through and whatever Blair and brown did

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for the good they were not people who

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liked having a generation of leaders

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coming up you had to be a disciple with

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them and so there's a leadership vacuum

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in a whole generation of the labor

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parliamentary party well they were

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fabians in white coats doing out uh uh

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things to the the working class Corbin's

277
00:11:30,079 --> 00:11:35,399
trying to organize and arouse the

278
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,200
working class to come together to Rally

279
00:11:35,399 --> 00:11:38,279
together to change their own lives and

280
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,200
they do and they are and there are

281
00:11:38,279 --> 00:11:42,120
hundreds of thousands absolutely

282
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,800
absolutely and I think it's a real

283
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,720
Testament to what's been going on that

284
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,639
when you go to the kinds of rallies that

285
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,959
they're holding you're seeing young and

286
00:11:48,639 --> 00:11:53,200
old men and women people coming out of

287
00:11:50,959 --> 00:11:55,160
all kinds of different backgrounds and

288
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,440
that really excites me I think that

289
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,360
there's there's a movement out there

290
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,440
that he's tapping into and when people

291
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:03,760
say as they do we're going back to the

292
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,440
early 1980s the labor part is going to

293
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,959
split there were going to be massive

294
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,720
election Victory election victories for

295
00:12:07,959 --> 00:12:11,279
the conservatives Labor's going to be

296
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,600
lost for a generation I said to them

297
00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:17,519
this is nothing like the early 1980s

298
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:19,519
what this reminds me of is 1945 and 1974

299
00:12:17,519 --> 00:12:21,160
the only years that labor went into

300
00:12:19,519 --> 00:12:23,760
general elections with anything like a

301
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:26,040
radical Manifesto both times of great

302
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:28,959
economic and Global crisis and both

303
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:31,639
times labor one in a global crisis you

304
00:12:28,959 --> 00:12:34,480
can only win if you present a radical

305
00:12:31,639 --> 00:12:36,120
alternative Professor you've been a joy

306
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,839
and I look forward to reading the book

307
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:40,480
thanks for coming onard

308
00:12:37,839 --> 00:12:45,120
theck coming up next is British

309
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democracy the best money can buy stay

310
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tuned welcome back to Sputnik the rise

311
00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:55,279
and Rise of lobbyists and the increasing

312
00:12:52,959 --> 00:12:57,839
supremacy of money in politics has

313
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killed democracy in the United States as

314
00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:03,160
we can see in real time right now less

315
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,560
noticed is that the same thing is

316
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:09,320
happening in Britain one man who has

317
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:11,480
noticed is author of parliament limited

318
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:14,440
Martin Williams an investigative

319
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:17,880
journalist of note who joins us now

320
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:20,440
Martin thanks tell us what you mean by

321
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,720
par Parliament limited well uh it's

322
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,760
called Parliament limited because um

323
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,680
seems to me that the focus of

324
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:29,720
Westminster and British politics seems

325
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:31,760
more and more to be on uh the focus of

326
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:34,040
politicians I should say uh seems to

327
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,959
more and more be on making money and

328
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:39,560
business rather than representing people

329
00:13:36,959 --> 00:13:42,000
um so for the book I did um for the I

330
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:45,480
think the first time ever an analysis of

331
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:47,959
all the companies that are um directed

332
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:51,240
by MPS and by peers in the House of

333
00:13:47,959 --> 00:13:53,720
Lords and uh the results are are really

334
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:57,079
quite staggering just because of of the

335
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:59,240
sheer numbers so there's around 2,800

336
00:13:57,079 --> 00:14:02,880
directorships company directorships held

337
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:06,399
by politicians um and for about 2 and a

338
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:09,079
half thousand companies um now just in

339
00:14:06,399 --> 00:14:10,839
in terms of the actual numbers that's

340
00:14:09,079 --> 00:14:15,399
they be they bring in a combined revenue

341
00:14:10,839 --> 00:14:18,240
of around 220 billion pounds a year 220

342
00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:20,800
billion pounds a year and that is they

343
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:23,160
their employees they've got uh they

344
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,920
employ about as as many people as it's

345
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:30,040
roughly equivalent to one in 20 of the

346
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:32,560
UK Workforce um and now obviously as as

347
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,600
you know MPS have to declare things they

348
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:37,000
have to there's a public uh register of

349
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,720
of interests where they have to put all

350
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,560
their directorships and outside jobs but

351
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,240
when I tallied this up to the register

352
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,880
of interests and it is impossible to do

353
00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,639
it exactly right it's not an exact

354
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:51,720
science but roughly around 40% of these

355
00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:53,160
directorships were not declared so now

356
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,720
some of them are not controversial some

357
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,680
of them didn't necessarily need to be

358
00:14:54,720 --> 00:15:01,000
declared by the rules but a lot of them

359
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:04,000
did um and and there are very clear

360
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,759
examples in the book where you know

361
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,399
people really should have said something

362
00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:09,519
about their their interest and then they

363
00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:12,160
go and talk on the same subject that

364
00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:13,639
they've got a financial interest in um

365
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,079
without declaring it without declaring

366
00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:18,279
it that's quite extraordinary in fact

367
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:20,759
everything that you have just said and I

368
00:15:18,279 --> 00:15:23,279
I was in Parliament for almost 30 years

369
00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:26,440
and everything you just said there was

370
00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:28,680
actually astounding give us an example

371
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,079
of Undeclared interest that's in your

372
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,759
book first of all I'll give you an

373
00:15:30,079 --> 00:15:33,399
example of declared ones right because

374
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:37,560
even them even when they have declared

375
00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:39,680
them it's still bad sometimes so um the

376
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,480
uh one of the big issues today housing

377
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:44,720
we housing crisis in Britain yeah now uh

378
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,319
for the public generally around I think

379
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:49,160
it's about 2% of the public are

380
00:15:46,319 --> 00:15:51,480
landlords but in Parliament it's 30% of

381
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:54,319
MPS and of as a proportion of

382
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,519
conservative MPS any idea what it is uh

383
00:15:54,319 --> 00:15:57,920
it's in my

384
00:15:55,519 --> 00:16:00,839
book we'll have to buy it to find out

385
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:04,160
but it's very high there's a majority of

386
00:16:00,839 --> 00:16:07,480
conservative MPS are landlords and3

387
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:10,199
billion a year is paid out by the state

388
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:13,360
in housing benefit to landlords

389
00:16:10,199 --> 00:16:15,560
including often times them yes exactly

390
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,639
now a lot of these MPS will declare it

391
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:20,160
you know a lot of them will say I am a

392
00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:21,600
landlord but the combined effect of

393
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,160
these so individually they're not

394
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,160
necessarily doing anything against the

395
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:28,079
rules but the combined effect of it is

396
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:30,839
uh in January of this year there was a

397
00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:33,639
law proposed that would have uh made it

398
00:16:30,839 --> 00:16:36,440
uh illegal for landlords to fail to

399
00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:38,440
provide housing that was not fit for

400
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:40,480
habitation which you would have thought

401
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,160
that's a a pretty obvious thing that we

402
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,959
need landlords to have houses that are

403
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:49,800
fit for habitation um that was blocked

404
00:16:44,959 --> 00:16:52,040
by MPS uh including uh a gang of 72 MPS

405
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,720
who were earning at least £10,000 a year

406
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:57,720
each as a landlord it's unbelievable

407
00:16:55,720 --> 00:17:01,720
absolutely astounding and of course as

408
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:05,520
you rightly say the register uh hides as

409
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:08,600
much as it uh reveals yes uh for example

410
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:11,480
there's a rather Infamous MP in the in

411
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:13,799
the news this week uh who has a

412
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,679
multi-million pound property Empire no

413
00:17:13,799 --> 00:17:18,799
one quite knows how they managed to

414
00:17:15,679 --> 00:17:20,559
build it up and when revealed when one

415
00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:23,240
gigantic piece of real estate was

416
00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:26,319
revealed in the Daily Mail the answer

417
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:28,600
was H actually it's my wife's uh

418
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:30,919
property so always the wife's property

419
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:35,520
so the wives or husbands of

420
00:17:30,919 --> 00:17:39,080
parliamentarians can quite privately own

421
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:42,080
but then of course as any fool knoweth

422
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:45,559
um a man and wife as we are our income

423
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:48,240
is one our expenditures are one at least

424
00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:53,039
in a common sense world that would be

425
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:56,600
the case or in the same newspaper this

426
00:17:53,039 --> 00:18:02,360
same week a former minister is revealed

427
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:05,640
to have given War W yes Advanced site of

428
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:09,280
a critical report of a select committee

429
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:12,559
and he's been suspended for two days

430
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:15,559
well I can do better than that even I'm

431
00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:17,840
beginning to believe that you can in uh

432
00:18:15,559 --> 00:18:20,000
my book one of The the people who uh I

433
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,559
came across was uh baronett Greenfield

434
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:26,159
who's uh a member of the House of Lords

435
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:28,440
and she um as she made a speech in

436
00:18:26,159 --> 00:18:30,840
Parliament uh a couple of years ago

437
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,320
where she it was about higher education

438
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,760
now whatever you think of her politics

439
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,960
and her views her view in this case was

440
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,200
that Parliament uh should the government

441
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,960
should help universities to open up to

442
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:43,600
private investors more of course they

443
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:46,000
should open up to private investors more

444
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:49,480
and her main uh one of her main uh point

445
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:51,840
was that uh when scientists or academics

446
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,919
at universities have ideas and come up

447
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,559
with Concepts that that they the

448
00:18:53,919 --> 00:18:59,000
university will own the intellectual

449
00:18:55,559 --> 00:19:00,720
property rights for those ideas and she

450
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:04,480
was saying that it should be easier for

451
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:07,320
private clients to in effect kind of uh

452
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,679
get you know invest in get a piece of

453
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,200
the um get a piece of the intellectual

454
00:19:09,679 --> 00:19:14,919
property rights to to kind of invest in

455
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,600
intellectual property rights and a month

456
00:19:14,919 --> 00:19:19,559
earlier I think it was a month earlier

457
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:22,000
very ear very soon before uh she had

458
00:19:19,559 --> 00:19:24,320
just been made non-executive director of

459
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:27,240
a company called Tech Capital limited

460
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:29,600
whose actual slogan is helping client

461
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:32,960
profit from University intellect ual

462
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:36,120
Capital now I complained about baroness

463
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:38,760
Greenfield I put a complaint in uh and

464
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:41,360
um just a few weeks ago uh this report

465
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,360
came out uh by the House of Commons

466
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:47,559
committee for Privileges and

467
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:49,600
conduct um and it after quite this was

468
00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:51,640
after weeks of waiting uh for this to

469
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,880
come out um it finally concluded that

470
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,440
she had breached the code of conduct she

471
00:19:53,880 --> 00:20:00,200
apologized she said it was an accident

472
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:03,080
um but uh her punishment you think

473
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,240
that's quite a serious breach you would

474
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,080
have thought maybe she'd be slapped the

475
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,320
fine maybe she'll be kicked out of

476
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,440
parliament no her actual punishment was

477
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,400
that she had to write a letter of

478
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,400
apology to the chairman of a

479
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,840
subcommittee uh this report has been out

480
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,240
on the internet for a few weeks but the

481
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,400
media is not interested no one's

482
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,320
reported it once you're in the Lord

483
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,679
you're in it for the rest of your life

484
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,360
most other people don't know and there

485
00:20:23,679 --> 00:20:29,720
are thousands of them so I mean I've

486
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:34,159
never heard of baroness Brownfield or

487
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:36,679
uh um Baron is not uh I've never uh

488
00:20:34,159 --> 00:20:40,799
heard of her and therefore my interest

489
00:20:36,679 --> 00:20:42,919
in what she's doing uh is is less but

490
00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:45,600
they're all members of the British

491
00:20:42,919 --> 00:20:47,799
Parliament an even bigger problem than

492
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:50,320
individual Mal feance from

493
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:52,880
parliamentarians is the and I saw this

494
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:55,600
happen it was not the case before I

495
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:58,120
entered Parliament 30 years ago but it

496
00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:01,400
very definitely is now big money

497
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:04,240
lobbyist s swarming all over the place

498
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,799
often given a pass to swarm even where

499
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,760
the public cannot go in the building by

500
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:13,159
members of parliament lobbying lobbying

501
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:15,960
for the revolving door uh between public

502
00:21:13,159 --> 00:21:19,919
life and private business lobbying for

503
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:22,159
the privatization of various Services uh

504
00:21:19,919 --> 00:21:25,600
that the country used to

505
00:21:22,159 --> 00:21:28,120
provide the rise of the lobbyist is an

506
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:31,080
even bigger cancer than the rise of the

507
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:32,799
rotten MP yeah I absolutely I mean we're

508
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,880
always going to have rotten MPS aren't

509
00:21:32,799 --> 00:21:36,200
we whatever we do whatever rules we put

510
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,080
in place there's always going to be some

511
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,720
people who we don't like um there's

512
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,039
always whether it's I mean I should

513
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,200
point out that a lot of the MPS

514
00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:45,720
including baroness Greenfield are not uh

515
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:50,039
corrupt they've not done anything

516
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:51,880
illegal um but it's stuff that we look

517
00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:53,080
at it and we go we don't like that

518
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,400
there's always going to be people like

519
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:57,080
that there's always going to be people

520
00:21:54,400 --> 00:22:01,600
like that but the influence of lobbying

521
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:03,880
and big business is so corrosive to the

522
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,279
Democratic process and and it doesn't

523
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,720
matter what your politics are it doesn't

524
00:22:05,279 --> 00:22:09,840
matter if you're leftwing right-wing

525
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:13,440
whatever we deserve a proper democracy

526
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:15,799
where big business doesn't influence it

527
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:19,320
and and our Representatives actually

528
00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:20,520
represent us the people rather than big

529
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,240
businesses was it easy for you to

530
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:26,480
investigate this were they itive about

531
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:29,080
this well um if you want to look at for

532
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:33,600
instance uh politicians with SH share

533
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:36,720
Holdings uh in let's say uh ba systems

534
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,080
which they're listed all about that UK's

535
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,919
biggest arm armed company and it's a

536
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,919
listed company it's floating on a stock

537
00:22:39,919 --> 00:22:45,240
exchange um with private companies

538
00:22:42,919 --> 00:22:46,919
private limited companies anyone can

539
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,720
find out who the shareholders are of

540
00:22:46,919 --> 00:22:51,919
those companies but with listed

541
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,679
companies uh it is pretty much

542
00:22:51,919 --> 00:22:55,440
impossible to identify whether a

543
00:22:53,679 --> 00:22:59,279
politician has shares in that company or

544
00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:02,480
not um in fact as I've discovered

545
00:22:59,279 --> 00:23:05,400
it is it's it's basically illegal um

546
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:09,000
there's a very complicated and law the

547
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:12,080
companies act 2006 and section 116 of

548
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:14,120
that act states that um in order to

549
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,120
access uh in order to access the

550
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:18,240
register of shareholders you have to

551
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:20,760
first of all provide that company with

552
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,559
your name your address and also the name

553
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,520
and address of anyone you might

554
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:27,240
potentially want to share that

555
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:29,480
information with now I'm writing a book

556
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,679
or I wrote a book that would mean that I

557
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,520
would have to have given them the name

558
00:23:30,679 --> 00:23:35,600
and address of everyone who might ever

559
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,799
potentially read my book and after this

560
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,000
broadcast that would be impossible

561
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:42,640
because everyone's going to be queuing

562
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,600
up to buy this book which is really uh

563
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,440
fantastic Parliament limited by Martin

564
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,960
Williams I promise you this this will

565
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,600
not be the last volume of this book no

566
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:57,279
you're going to have to produce almost

567
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:59,000
an annual uh of this subject because the

568
00:23:57,279 --> 00:24:01,679
problems that you've identified

569
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:04,120
are not going away anytime soon now of

570
00:24:01,679 --> 00:24:06,960
course to you David Cameron has now

571
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:10,080
resigned as an MP what's he GNA go on to

572
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:12,720
do now um almost certainly he'll do the

573
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:15,960
same as Tony Blair and Gordon Brown and

574
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,679
get some nice kushy private sector jobs

575
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,679
make lots of money for himself well the

576
00:24:17,679 --> 00:24:22,679
front page of your book is pigs at a

577
00:24:20,679 --> 00:24:25,679
trough perhaps we should draw a

578
00:24:22,679 --> 00:24:27,840
Vil Martin Williams author of parliament

579
00:24:25,679 --> 00:24:29,610
limited thanks for joining us on the

580
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,919
Sputnik

581
00:24:29,610 --> 00:24:33,559
[Music]

582
00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:35,799
and now it's your turn to tell us what

583
00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:39,159
you think through the portals of social

584
00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:42,080
media what's so when we ask does Britain

585
00:24:39,159 --> 00:24:44,520
have the best democracy money can buy we

586
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:47,279
had lots of traffic and Max Millennium

587
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:50,440
says for example we can only buy

588
00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:53,000
hypocrisy not democracy very good line

589
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:55,679
couldn't put that better myself Robert

590
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,960
bla adds well there's too much hidden

591
00:24:55,679 --> 00:25:02,600
from us to call the UK a democracy

592
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,840
and finally Ricardo Picasso says the new

593
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,799
prime minister might not be another top

594
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,320
hat wearing millionaire but he

595
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:12,320
represents them I think that's a fair

596
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,600
point too I've got no argument with any

597
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,760
of those tweets well that's all that we

598
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,399
have for today then which alas means

599
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,120
that's the end of the show but you can

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00:25:18,399 --> 00:25:22,720
stay in touch with us on social media

601
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:25,120
through Twitter at rtor Sputnik on

602
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,520
Facebook Sputnik on Russia today it's

603
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:29,900
goodbye from me gri and from me George

604
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:35,440
Galloway it's been

605
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:35,440
[Music]

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00:25:41,570 --> 00:25:46,559
[Music]

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00:25:43,559 --> 00:25:46,559
marvelous